[meow]

No offense, but @Oni just wipped 'yer butt.

By calling me edgy and saying science is limited by time? I thought it was too silly of a statement to respond to, but apparently not, so here goes...

Edgy. Debating faith seems like a fruitless discussion, as faith isn't based on logic. At the same time, science is limited by time, and is capable of explaining only so much.

Spoiler:

"Edgy" - Overused word used by theists in ad hominem statements against atheists because theists have no better way to respond to logic

"Science is limited by time" Well yes, everything is limited by time. I thought that was common sense. Nothing existed before time because that would mean space wouldn't have been created and nothing will exist after time (if time ever ends) because the end of time is the end of space. Your point?

"Science...is capable of explaining only so much" Are you saying religion explains more? The difference between scientific explanations and religious explanations is that one is based off of facts and inferences whereas the other is based off of guesses and a desire to cling to some sort of false explanation for how the universe came to be, I'll let you distinguish those for yourself.

The fatal mistake you and all theists make is looking at the beauty of the universe and asking "who created it" rather than "what caused it". In order to answer the theistic question of "who created it", the theists came up with a fairy tale absolutely created by human imagination and "faith". Faith is the buzz-word used to justify the belief in absurd things such as the belief that a magical man created the universe and that that man only cares about beings on the planet Earth (even though there are trillions of other planets!) without a single grain of evidence what-so-ever. On the other hand, in order to answer the scientific question of "what caused it", scientists didn't jump to silly conclusions like the theists, they began making observations of the world around us and the universe itself and put together a puzzle (that is still being put together to this day) based on facts, evidence, and logic.

If your religion is the correct one (according to you and all it's other followers), riddle me this. Why are there roughly 4,200 other known religions in the world, and why is your god the only one and why are your beliefs the only correct ones?

When people ask why I don't believe in a god (their god, to be precise), I say because of the same reason why you don't believe in any other religion's god(s). Because it's silly and completely made-up.

[m0dem]

"Science is limited by time" Well yes, everything is limited by time. I thought that was common sense. Nothing existed before time because that would mean space wouldn't have been created and nothing will exist after time (if time ever ends) because the end of time is the end of space. Your point?

1. The possibility that something can from nothing is absolutely absurd. It's like if you were a programmer, and you worked on the greatest programming project ever... It was amazing!!! ... and then everyone comes up and says: "Oh look what just appeared from nothing." You'd probably think they are retarded.

Oh, and by the way, has any of your "scientists" ever explain how time began? It's not physical... so how would they know?

"Science...is capable of explaining only so much" Are you saying religion explains more? The difference between scientific explanations and religious explanations is that one is based off of facts and inferences whereas the other is based off of guesses and a desire to cling to some sort of false explanation for how the universe came to be, I'll let you distinguish those for yourself.

2. I see you have "a desire to cling to some sort of false explanation for how the universe came to be." Refer to #3.

I've already distinguished those... many years ago.

The fatal mistake you and all theists make is looking at the beauty of the universe and asking "who created it" rather than "what caused it". In order to answer the theistic question of "who created it", the theists came up with a fairy tale absolutely created by human imagination and "faith".

3. Refer to #1.

Faith is the buzz-word used to justify the belief in absurd things such as the belief that a magical man created the universe and that that man only cares about beings on the planet Earth (even though there are trillions of other planets!) without a single grain of evidence what-so-ever. On the other hand, in order to answer the scientific question of "what caused it", scientists didn't jump to silly conclusions like the theists, they began making observations of the world around us and the universe itself and put together a puzzle (that is still being put together to this day) based on facts, evidence, and logic.

4. You have belief in your "scientists." Who have been proven wrong MANY times.

It's really funny how we look back at when people thought the earth was flat and think they were silly... Did you know the Bible stated the Earth was round? before your "scientists" ever did.

It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
- Isaiah 40:22

Even more absurd to us is that people use to think the Earth was carried through space on the backs of creatures!!!!!!! The Bible had the truth all along.

He stretches out the north over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing.
- Job 26:7

There are many, many other good examples. All which are at your convenience:
https://answersingenesis.org/answers/boo...the-bible/

---

This is logic.

Anyway, I better not write anymore in this post. Might embarrass you too much.

*bracing for the neg rep*

[Oni]

By calling me edgy and saying science is limited by time? I thought it was too silly of a statement to respond to, but apparently not, so here goes...

Spoiler:

"Edgy" - Overused word used by theists in ad hominem statements against atheists because theists have no better way to respond to logic

"Science is limited by time" Well yes, everything is limited by time. I thought that was common sense. Nothing existed before time because that would mean space wouldn't have been created and nothing will exist after time (if time ever ends) because the end of time is the end of space. Your point?

"Science...is capable of explaining only so much" Are you saying religion explains more? The difference between scientific explanations and religious explanations is that one is based off of facts and inferences whereas the other is based off of guesses and a desire to cling to some sort of false explanation for how the universe came to be, I'll let you distinguish those for yourself.

The fatal mistake you and all theists make is looking at the beauty of the universe and asking "who created it" rather than "what caused it". In order to answer the theistic question of "who created it", the theists came up with a fairy tale absolutely created by human imagination and "faith". Faith is the buzz-word used to justify the belief in absurd things such as the belief that a magical man created the universe and that that man only cares about beings on the planet Earth (even though there are trillions of other planets!) without a single grain of evidence what-so-ever. On the other hand, in order to answer the scientific question of "what caused it", scientists didn't jump to silly conclusions like the theists, they began making observations of the world around us and the universe itself and put together a puzzle (that is still being put together to this day) based on facts, evidence, and logic.

If your religion is the correct one (according to you and all it's other followers), riddle me this. Why are there roughly 4,200 other known religions in the world, and why is your god the only one and why are your beliefs the only correct ones?

When people ask why I don't believe in a god (their god, to be precise), I say because of the same reason why you don't believe in any other religion's god(s). Because it's silly and completely made-up.

Did Santa give you the wrong present when you were a kid? For whatever reason, you seem to believe faith and logic have to directly oppose each other. Humans have used both science and religion to explain the unknown, but neither has ever succeeded at explaining everything. Both have limitations.

It's both arrogant and foolish to claim we fully understand the universe and creation. Considering ideas (both scientific/religious) and latching on to them is perfectly fine. However, being intolerant, without offering a completely proven alternative, is just rude. I believe in Murphy's Law and I like to keep an open mind.

[meow]

@m0dem

1. The possibility that something can from nothing is absolutely absurd. It's like if you were a programmer, and you worked on the greatest programming project ever... and then everyone comes up and said: "Oh look what just appeared from nothing." You probably wouldn't be too happy.

Oh, and by the way, has any of your "scientists" ever explain how time began? It's not physical... so how would they know?

No scientist has ever claimed that something came from nothing, not in your sense of "nothing" at least. The beginning of the universe was singularity (before the Big Bang). Also, no scientist has ever claimed to know how time began, and nobody does know. Case closed.

2. I see you have "a desire to cling to some sort of false explanation for how the universe came to be."
I've already distinguished those... many years ago.

..? Scientists have evidence of the universe coming from singularity, a.k.a. the Big Bang (google - cosmological red shift, cosmic microwave background radiation, planck epoch, quantum physics, etc). Whereas theists have NO evidence of the universe being created by some sort of intelligent designer. Case closed.

3. Refer to #1.

Refer to my response to 1. Case closed.

4. You have belief in your "scientists." Who have been proven wrong MANY times.

I'm not going to say I have a "belief" in scientists or science as if science requires some sort of faith. It's facts. And yes, scientists have been proven wrong. Humans are prone to error whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. At least after being proven wrong, any legitimate scientist remasters his statements, highly unlike theists. Just look at the bible, it has tons of verses that are completely scientifically false, yet Christians continue babbling their non-sense (inb4 "the bible is metaphors!", I'd be happy to debate you on that claim as well). Case closed.

It's really funny how we look back at when people thought the earth was flat and think it was stupid... Did you know the Bible stated the Earth was round, before your "scientists"?

I can't believe you actually just said that the Bible said Earth was round before scientists, holy shit! It appears you've actually never looked at the Bible and testaments or learned about a man named Pythagoras. The first known person to claim that the Earth was round was Pythagoras, a Greek philosopher, mathematician, lived 600 years before your "Christ", and wasn't Christian obviously.

Spoiler:

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Psalms 67:7 God will bless us, and all the ends of the earth will fear him.

Need I say more? I have more verses that contradict what you just said in case you want more. Case closed.

Even more absurd to us is that people use to think the Earth was carried on the backs of creatures!!!!!!!

You're right, they did! And apparently still do!

Spoiler:

Psalms 75:3 When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm.

Case closed.

Anyway, I better not write anymore in this post. Might embarrass you too much.

Right, because I'm the one getting embarrassed here. Case closed.

Anything else you'd like me to debunk?

[D3faultCell]

Religion has been a weird subject for me despise being brought up Christian.I have always leaned toward an agnostic viewpoint.

[meow]

Did Santa give you the wrong present when you were a kid? For whatever reason, you seem to believe faith and logic have to directly oppose each other. Humans have used both science and religion to explain the unknown, but neither has ever succeeded at explaining everything. Both have limitations.

Faith and logic/reason do directly oppose each other considering they're the exact opposite of each other. Nothing has ever succeeded in explaining everything because, in fact, no one can know everything (except your god obviously!). Religion has never factually succeeded in explaining anything without guessing or going by what scientists have figured out. Case cloooooooosed.

It's both arrogant and foolish to claim we fully understand the universe and creation, and no one does. Considering ideas (both scientific/religious) and latching on to them is perfectly fine. However, being intolerant, without offering a completely proven alternative, is just rude. I believe in Murphy's Law and I like to keep an open mind.

No one has ever claimed to fully understand the universe and its creation, and no one does (again, except your god!). That's why scientists are making an effort to do so, rather than making unintelligent assumptions of how everything came to be. You want a "completely proven" alternative, yet you believe in something that is "completely unproven" (and in some cases, disproven) without protest. Hm.... case closed.

Loving this double teaming by the way. I also noticed how you avoided responding to nearly everything I said that went against what you said. Next time you guys choose someone to pick on, make sure it's someone your own size (very, very small).

*Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn*

[m0dem]

No scientist has ever claimed that something came from nothing, not in your sense of "nothing" at least. The beginning of the universe was singularity (before the Big Bang). Also, no scientist has ever claimed to know how time began, and nobody does know. Case closed.

Ha. Case closed.
(just being sarcastic and showing you how stupid that phrase is...)

..? Scientists have evidence of the universe coming from singularity, a.k.a. the Big Bang (google - cosmological red shift, cosmic microwave background radiation, planck epoch, quantum physics, etc). Whereas theists have NO evidence of the universe being created by some sort of intelligent designer. Case closed.

Yet you say you don't have "faith" in scientists. You have to have faith in the scientists in order to believe their theories.

I'm not going to say I have a "belief" in scientists or science as if science requires some sort of faith. It's facts. And yes, scientists have been proven wrong. Humans are prone to error whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. At least after being proven wrong, any legitimate scientist remasters his statements, highly unlike theists. Just look at the bible, it has tons of verses that are completely scientifically false, yet Christians continue babbling their non-sense (inb4 "the bible is metaphors!", I'd be happy to debate you on that claim as well). Case closed.

You have faith in scientists that say things you have never experienced. Have you ever sent a rover through space? You have to have trust in scientists to believe their science.
(I'm not saying that is wrong.)

I can't believe you actually just said that the Bible said Earth was round before scientists, holy shit! It appears you've actually never looked at the Bible and testaments or learned about a man named Pythagoras. The first known person to claim that the Earth was round was Pythagoras, a Greek philosopher, mathematician, lived 600 years before your "Christ", and wasn't Christian obviously.

I didn't know that anyone would be so ignorant as to think that there was no Bible before Christ came to Earth.
And Isaiah was written before Pythagoras.
He didn't have to be a "Christian" to read the Bible.
Maybe he knew the Earth was round... he was one of the few: until just recently, people thought the earth was flat...

[Oni]

Faith and logic do directly oppose each other considering they're the exact opposite of each other. Nothing has ever succeeded in explaining everything because, in fact, no one can know everything (except your god obviously!). Religion has never factually succeeded in explaining anything without guessing or going by what scientists have figured out. Case cloooooooosed.


No one has ever claimed to fully understand the universe and its creation. That's why scientists are making an effort to do so, rather than making unintelligent assumptions of how everything came to be. You want a "completely proven" alternative, yet you believe in something that is "completely unproven" (and in some cases, disproven) without protest. Hm.... case closed.

Loving this double teaming by the way. I also noticed how you avoided responding to nearly everything I said that went against what you said. Next time you guys choose someone to pick on, make sure it's someone your own size (much, much smaller than me apparently).

*Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn*

Speaking of unintelligent assumptions, you keep assuming that I'm a theist? Unlike you, I'm not quick to assume I understand creation or the universe. I don't rule out science or religion. Some theories have evidence backing them, but they aren't actually proven (you can always correct me with links). I didn't address your thoughts on religion, because I believe the debate is a fruitless one. You can't compare faith and science. They are opposites, as you said. Acknowledging possibilities, even if you dislike/disagree with them, is a sign of maturity.

Edit: Let's keep things respectful, by the way. Also consider making a new thread if you want the topic to change.

[Jiggly]

Faith and logic do not oppose. What was once claimed as logic in many a "scientific fact" has later been proven incorrect. Science is often faith based on observations and on working with the tangible aspects of life. However, it does not disprove or prove religion.

I feel like the film Transcendence raises some very relevant arguments in this line of discussion. Go watch it if you haven't.

I am leaving my personal opinions out of this conversation to look it this as objectively as possible. It is easy to make judgements on religion and with some good reason too. However, it is often done with the assumption that science is always right. The point of science is not to be right, it is to investigate and get as close to the truth as possible.

It is also easy to claim that religion makes false claims about what it explains (like the beginning of time). However, science has also claimed much that isn't true. Neither is more valid than the other. One has never been able to disprove the other.

[meow]

Speaking of unintelligent assumptions, you keep assuming that I'm a theist? Unlike you, I'm not quick to assume I understand creation or the universe. I don't rule out science or religion. Some theories have evidence backing them, but they aren't actually proven (you can always correct me with links). I didn't address your thoughts on religion, because I believe the debate is a fruitless one. You can't compare faith and science. They are opposites, as you said. Acknowledging possibilities, even if you dislike/disagree with them, is a sign of maturity.

you keep assuming that I'm a theist

I'm actually Christian.

...

Unlike you, I'm not quick to assume I understand creation or the universe.

You assume I'm quick to assume I understand creation or the universe. On an off-hand note, things are not created, things come into effect because of a cause. Refer to the Law of Conservation of Mass and the Law of Conservation of Energy.

Some theories have evidence backing them, but they aren't actually proven

Proof is a mathematical term, not everything can be proven contrary to your belief. Evidence is facts along with inferences that are based on observations of nature and the universe. That's what science is.

I didn't address your thoughts on religion, because I believe the debate is a fruitless one.

Taking the coward's way out? You seem pretty confident, just give it a shot. I don't have any animosity towards you, it's just a debate.

You can't compare faith and science. They are opposites, as you said.

I know that, thanks.

Acknowledging possibilities, even if you dislike/disagree with them, is a sign of maturity.

It's physically impossible for there to be an intelligent designer of the entire universe. If you think or believe I'm wrong, cite some sources to evidence.