[amortp]

Hi, somewhat new here but I've been browsing several forums and lurking in the SE world a while. About to take on my first "big" SE/refund and just had a few questions or things I wanted some assurance on.

I know some guide was going around saying you can just chargeback on Paypal for Microsoft and they don't respond, resulting in a refund. I feel that this is too good to be true so I have doubts about this method; as such I am considering doing a regular DNA through Microsoft themselves.

I ordered two Xbox One X consoles. I am willing to keep them if the refund does not work, so this is more an experiment/learning experience than anything else. They are due to arrive on the same day, but they are arriving as two different shipments. The courier is FedEx, I am located in Canada, and both shipments say 'No Signature Required." That being said, would it be reasonable to attempt to say neither console has arrived? I am assuming they will be leaving the packages on the front porch since no signature is required. If I were to make the argument that I got home from work late (both shipments will be delivered by 8pm latest) and there was nothing on the porch, is that a plausible statement?

I am also considering claiming 1 did not arrive, and then refunding the other afterwards in-store. Just wanted to get some thoughts and input as to my plans and what could go wrong/what I should improve.

Thanks in advance!

[mothered]

both shipments say 'No Signature Required."

On the grounds the package Is left on the premises, they've SEd themselves so to speak- this Is perfectly suited to the DNA method.

Just remember that a package that was delivered, Is not the same as being received. There's a big difference between the two, and the latter Is a case of the package being stolen.

[amortp]

both shipments say 'No Signature Required."

On the grounds the package Is left on the premises, they've SEd themselves so to speak- this Is perfectly suited to the DNA method.

Just remember that a package that was delivered, Is not the same as being received. There's a big difference between the two, and the latter Is a case of the package being stolen.

Thanks, that's what I figured but thought I'd just double check since I'm somewhat new. The items arrived today and I made the support ticket; I'll keep this thread updated in case anyone is interested now or in the future. For the record, I did use the DNA method. Excited to see how it pans out.

[mothered]

both shipments say 'No Signature Required."

On the grounds the package Is left on the premises, they've SEd themselves so to speak- this Is perfectly suited to the DNA method.

Just remember that a package that was delivered, Is not the same as being received. There's a big difference between the two, and the latter Is a case of the package being stolen.

Thanks, that's what I figured but thought I'd just double check since I'm somewhat new. The items arrived today and I made the support ticket; I'll keep this thread updated in case anyone is interested now or in the future. For the record, I did use the DNA method. Excited to see how it pans out.

Good work.

Please keep us Informed as developments come to hand.

[Tibo inc]

both shipments say 'No Signature Required."

On the grounds the package Is left on the premises, they've SEd themselves so to speak- this Is perfectly suited to the DNA method.

Just remember that a package that was delivered, Is not the same as being received. There's a big difference between the two, and the latter Is a case of the package being stolen.

Thanks, that's what I figured but thought I'd just double check since I'm somewhat new. The items arrived today and I made the support ticket; I'll keep this thread updated in case anyone is interested now or in the future. For the record, I did use the DNA method. Excited to see how it pans out.

Did they not ask you to file a police report? Please do keep us updated with the outcome.

[amortp]

Sorry I haven't been updating you guys as I went through the process. So I decided to be a gullible idiot and go through with the PayPal dispute method as per that guide someone posted. As one could expect, Microsoft DID respond to the dispute just before the 10 days elapsed. The dispute was filed in the first week of January and the case was just resolved yesterday morning. It was not easy - not to me anyways.

I filed the dispute with my story, FedEx left it on the porch, no signature was required, etc. The delivery took place at about 12PM and I truly do not get home from work until much later in the evening. I filed the dispute later that night saying the items were not here when I got home, I know I'm protected under PayPal Buyer Protection, so please just refund the money. Of course my actual message was a lot longer and more frantic but that was the idea.

Now, one thing that really fucked with me was PayPal charged my bank account instead of my credit card. I'm 99% sure that I selected my CC as the payment method but it went to the bank, so I didn't really have the fallback of chargeback with CC. Anyways, Microsoft (MS) responded to the dispute and, from that point on, I couldn't contribute to the process anymore. They had my initial story and whatever MS gave them and they were "reviewing" it. I put that in quotations because, at this point, I am genuinely convinced that the dispute/claim process consists of a bunch of bots or equally stupid humans.

After about 2 weeks of reviewing (forgot to mention it was escalated to a claim at some point), I lost the decision. They decided in Microsoft's favour. I wasn't about to give up though, because it made no sense to me at all. No signature, I say I didn't receive the item, but I lose? Then I saw their reason for deciding against me; "Seller has provided proof of delivery with tracking." All I could remember were the words of @mothered when he said "Just remember that a package that was delivered, Is not the same as being received."

I waited until work the next day and called specifically at lunch hour. There was lots of background noise and I made sure to sound frantic to make everything far more believable. I asked wtf happened, there was no signature needed, there was nothing I could have done, how could I be out for over $1,000 and have nothing to show for it? Where was the Buyer Protection? The agent I spoke with sympathized with me and felt strongly that I should have been awarded the decision so he re-opened the case for assessment, saying a mistake must have been made. Less than 24 hours later, I lost the appeal. Again, wtf?

Then I remember how much people talk about knowing company policies, having a plan, the works. So I go through PayPal's seller and buyer protection requirements and I noticed that they had it in writing. As a seller, any transactions over a certain amount (depends on currency) NEED a signature confirmation in order for tracking to be considered Proof of Delivery. My order was over 1k, and this threshold was $850. So I called again at lunch hour and made the agent read the policy out to me. I asked how exactly can they provide proof of delivery for something worth 1k when I hadn't signed anything? The agent left several notes pointing this out on the case and re-opened the case. Roughly 7 hours later, I got my refund in PayPal .

Moral of the story is be persistent, know your shit, and don't give up.

TLDR; PayPal dicked me around, made some mistakes, I proved them wrong with their own policies, I win. Thanks @mothered tbh.

[mothered]

Precisely this:

Moral of the story is be persistent, know your shit, and don't give up.

Being persistent, adamant and assuming an authoritative figure by taking control of the situation, will "significantly" Increase the likely hood of a successful outcome.

Well done, good work. And I'm glad you've taken some of my posts under advisement.