[Arthur Curry]

So then you agree that your definition of a platform is too open? Ok.

Windows=well, windows (LOL—that gets you points)
Linux, BSD, xnu, etc = POSIX.1
VERY different structure. If you were a real programmer you would know the differences.

I know how windows is different than linux but in Java the underlying code will be the same. Will it not? Can you please just pony up and answer the proper question?

Not at all. C may be harder to learn, but so is Chinese. Chinese is VERY easy to write in.

I said the code will be easier and faster to write and gave exact examples, good job giving a poor analogy as a response: you earn no credibility here. Can you give a good example of why C would be FASTER to prototype than Java? I bet not

These are the words of a professional Java programmer. I do in fact have a career in computer science and not one time have I ever even had the option of using Java. My choices have always been C or ARM32 (v7). Sure, learn Java, its nice to know how things work, but don't expect it to be the solution to your problems. Much like VB is not a real world solution.

So you are a professional Java programmer who has never coded professionally in Java? K. But Java is used in the real world (and very much so) so your argument is fundamentally flawed and absurd.

Back to the cross platform thing: What language is the standard JVM written in again?

By “Standard JVM,” do you mean HotSpot? Then sure, it is written in C++, but that is hardly relevant (see last paragraph). HotSpot is the reference VM for Windows, Linux, and Solaris on IA-32, X86-64, Sparc, ARMv6 and 7. There are a multitude of other VMs that extend Java to a multitude of other platforms.

By your terms, that would make C also cross platform.

Only if you term cross-compiling as cross platform.

Java is not cross platform because you cannot take your java source code and run it on ANY cpu (flawed statement, armv8 has a BJ instruction that allows execution of Java bytecode without the use of any built in features such as garbage collection).

Cross platform is not ‘Omni-platform.’ I do not need to prove java can run on a Tamagotchi in order to satisfy that Java is cross platform.

You require an interpreter. Is bash cross platform? No. Bash is not a programming language, it is a script and requires a platform dependant interpreter. Therefore making said interpreter a platform. Thus the JVM is the interpreter for Java, making Java itself a platform. (also flawed, as the JVM provides the platform for the Java, but your intelligence would not grasp this as you stated in the last reply).

Maybe you don't know what Java is so let me oblige: Java is a runtime environment consisting of the all necessary libraries, components, and the VM necessary to run programs written in Java. To say that Java is merely a language in and of itself is ludicrous as it requires the Java runtime environment and the necessary components. It is akin to saying Linux is POSIX compliant by itself (oh shit, you did that…). Which is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Linux and POSIX are. Let me quote the great Stallman here: “Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.” You are referencing only one part of Java. This is not the first time you have been so confused: Last time I had to correct you on Java

If you were a real programmer you would have known the difference

[A5^]

If you were a real programmer you would have known the difference

AYYYY LMAO AC LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK ON THIS KIDDO

[dopamine]

C would almost definitely be harder to write in. To say otherwise would be a downright fallacy. Simply in terms of garbage management, the collection offered as an inherent part of the JVM would save loads of time in the development phase. Not to mention the JDK already contains every necessary higher order api function for a project like this and those functions are available on every system this will be deployed to.

Harder for who? For a programmer with 10 years experience in C and 0 days in Java? Wrong. In C you just have to know more things and write more functions that is all.

I tried to learn Java yesterday. I learned that the next day I choose to open a Java IDE will be my last. Java is pretty awful in my opinion. I would also like to mention that I have a strong C# background so that could have contributed to my disliking of java.

[phyrrus9]

The use of a language is a matter of personal preference in part. But it is also in part a measure of the usefulness of the language. You wouldn't write a compiler in brainfuck, though you certainly could. Just because you can do something one way doesn't mean you should. I can take the tires off of my car by holding the handbrake and popping the clutch but that isn't going to turn out so well for my rims. You can write all sorts of programs in Java but that doesn't make them as good as something else. Yes, they both do the same task, but at what cost? Back to the car references: I can remove the steering wheel with a hacksaw, and it would definitely be easier than using the correct Torx bits, but I am going to have a hell of a time installing the new one. Java might work in this scenario, but is it the best option? We don't know. But once again, Java is like the hacksaw. It will definitely get the job done, and it is useful a lot of times, like when you need to remove an old piece of pipe to weld a new one on, your Torx bits aren't really going to help here. But like I said, having the right tool for the job is amazing.

Mechanics don't just own a hacksaw.. Just a few of the tools I have used in the last couple months:
Full range of sockets and wrenches from 8mm to 24mm (both standard and reach)
Floor jacks
Coat hangers
Rubber hose
Ball joint spreader
Hammer
Hacksaw
Torx screwdrivers (as well as PH and standards)
Flywheel wrench

It's great to have all of the tools. Could you imagine me having a mexican hold my flywheel in place while I tightened down 6 bolts to 120lb? You NEED ALL OF THE TOOLS! Learn a little of everything, but don't master the tools that are infrequently used (let's call the flywheel wrench VB, I used it once, and I will NEVER use it on the same car again). Instead, master the tools you will use every day, like the wrenches and sockets. C and assembly languages are not dead, they are used every. single. day. Some of you might run from it, but it will catch up to you.

[Arthur Curry]

The use of a language is a matter of personal preference in part. But it is also in part a measure of the usefulness of the language. You wouldn't write a compiler in brainfuck, though you certainly could. Just because you can do something one way doesn't mean you should. I can take the tires off of my car by holding the handbrake and popping the clutch but that isn't going to turn out so well for my rims. You can write all sorts of programs in Java but that doesn't make them as good as something else. Yes, they both do the same task, but at what cost? Back to the car references: I can remove the steering wheel with a hacksaw, and it would definitely be easier than using the correct Torx bits, but I am going to have a hell of a time installing the new one. Java might work in this scenario, but is it the best option? We don't know. But once again, Java is like the hacksaw. It will definitely get the job done, and it is useful a lot of times, like when you need to remove an old piece of pipe to weld a new one on, your Torx bits aren't really going to help here. But like I said, having the right tool for the job is amazing.

Mechanics don't just own a hacksaw.. Just a few of the tools I have used in the last couple months:
Full range of sockets and wrenches from 8mm to 24mm (both standard and reach)
Floor jacks
Coat hangers
Rubber hose
Ball joint spreader
Hammer
Hacksaw
Torx screwdrivers (as well as PH and standards)
Flywheel wrench

It's great to have all of the tools. Could you imagine me having a mexican hold my flywheel in place while I tightened down 6 bolts to 120lb? You NEED ALL OF THE TOOLS! Learn a little of everything, but don't master the tools that are infrequently used (let's call the flywheel wrench VB, I used it once, and I will NEVER use it on the same car again). Instead, master the tools you will use every day, like the wrenches and sockets. C and assembly languages are not dead, they are used every. single. day. Some of you might run from it, but it will catch up to you.

So, since sinisterly got rolled back and my post was lost:

You then agree with me that Java should just be another tool in the box and you should learn it? I have not said" "do not learn C." I, in fact, do know C and C++ and have coded in each frequently. You, on the other hand, have argued that people should not learn Java and that the language (one of the most widely used in the world) is a 'skiddy language.' That is why I called you out and I will continue to do so as you have shown to be completely obtuse on your irrational position against Java.

[phyrrus9]

So, since sinisterly got rolled back and my post was lost:

You then agree with me that Java should just be another tool in the box and you should learn it? I have not said" "do not learn C." I, in fact, do know C and C++ and have coded in each frequently. You, on the other hand, have argued that people should not learn Java and that the language (one of the most widely used in the world) is a 'skiddy language.' That is why I called you out and I will continue to do so as you have shown to be completely obtuse on your irrational position against Java.

I think you should know a little of everything, and master a few. I do not believe that you should master Java. That's like mastering the use of a flywheel wrench, which you will use once, maybe twice in your lifetime. Or if you are a mechanic you will use it maybe once a year.

[Arthur Curry]

I think you should know a little of everything, and master a few. I do not believe that you should master Java. That's like mastering the use of a flywheel wrench, which you will use once, maybe twice in your lifetime. Or if you are a mechanic you will use it maybe once a year.

But that is just your opinion -- and a very poor opinion that is based on seemingly nothing. It took me all of 20 seconds to find over 30 thousand job listings for Java developers that would pay a six figure salary. You are wrong again due to your irrational hatred of a programming language that is used around the world and by some of the largest corporations in the world.

In terms of exploitation and security some of the largest and most visible exploits in recent memory have been done on Java-based systems (struts, coldfusion, JBoss, TWikiDraw (moinmelt)) not to mention the vulnerabilities found within the JRE itself. If this is not demonstrative of the need for more experienced Java developers then I don't know what is.

[Oni]

But that is just your opinion -- and a very poor opinion that is based on seemingly nothing. It took me all of 20 seconds to find over 30 thousand job listings for Java developers that would pay a six figure salary. You are wrong again due to your irrational hatred of a programming language that is used around the world and by some of the largest corporations in the world.

In terms of exploitation and security some of the largest and most visible exploits in recent memory have been done on Java-based systems (struts, coldfusion, JBoss, TWikiDraw (moinmelt)) not to mention the vulnerabilities found within the JRE itself. If this is not demonstrative of the need for more experienced Java developers then I don't know what is.

I have a strong dislike for Java as well. No doubt it's useful if you're wanting to make cash, but I'd never choose it as my primary language (much less as a secondary or tertiary one).

[Arthur Curry]

I have a strong dislike for Java as well. No doubt it's useful if you're wanting to make cash, but I'd never choose it as my primary language (much less as a secondary or tertiary one).

Care to explain why? I'd like to see a cohesive set of points from someone who dislikes the language that doesn't hinge on a terrible argument such as: "it's a skiddy language" (the sole argument offered thus far by phyrrus).

[Oni]

Care to explain why? I'd like to see a cohesive set of points from someone who dislikes the language that doesn't hinge on a terrible argument such as: "it's a skiddy language" (the sole argument offered thus far by phyrrus).

Security flaws, no global variables, and not to mention the necessity of a JRE. That being said, it is cross-platform, versatile, and I know a lot of people that use it. Personally, I dislike it, though.