[The Real Slim Shady]

Nevertheless I still think that this is something you can deal with and learning commands from greenfoot or MaSH that aren't Java at all and that I have to unlearn later won't help at all.

I think people should start without an IDE, they should use a texteditor and a console to compile their programs and that's it. At my second year at university I still didn't know how to compile a Java program using a console which is pretty sad looking back at it. I think people should learn this from the ground up and not from the top looking down and not understanding anything.

These are the two big points i agree with. First of all, the language they are teaching is useless... and second, its like, i dont expect to get a programming job while im still in first year university... but i might look for something in IT as a junior role or even internship. Being able to put an a recognizable language that i have experience with could be beneficial. putting something no one has ever heard of is not lol.

And i totally agree with your second paragraph. I learned on Borland's Turbo BASIC some 16 years ago now. No IDE whatsoever. hell i didnt even have the internet. i learned by reading a photocopy of a list of TB commands/functions whatever lol. I then moved onto VB4, then 6 then ASP, PHP, C++ etc. All this point and click and dragging forms. how the hell are you really going to learn how to code lol. Although tbh i havent coded much since about 2006 and ive gotten pretty shit at any of the languages i used to be decent in lol. constantly making noob mistakes now LOL. but id rather get back into the kind of programming that i used to do, and not some programming that will just further interfere with what i already knew? haha