[mothered]

I would never pay this much for a pair of shoes out of pocket, where's the fun in that?

Exactly.

For that price, you'd want a hand coming out of the sole massaging your feet as you're relaxing on the couch.

As referenced from their TOS in my OP, Versace doesn't specifically state that they do not accept liability for lost/stolen packages, so given that, it seems to me like DNA could be doable, assuming their customer service isn't terrible/hard to get in touch with.

Even If their CS Is appalling, It doesn't change the fact that they're liable for lost shipments.

Like It or lump It, they must comply with their protocol.

If it were you attempting this SE, would you stick with one item, or attempt a multiple item order?

If they're definitely liable for lost shipments, I'd SE the lot with the DNA.

No doubt a lengthy claims process will be expected.

[kyungchul]

Exactly.

For that price, you'd want a hand coming out of the sole massaging your feet as you're relaxing on the couch.

This cracked me up, I appreciate your sense of humor.

My typical goal with SE-ing - besides testing/expanding my own skills - is acquiring items I would normally seek voluntary commitment before willingly hitting "purchase" on. So we'll see how this one goes!

If they're definitely liable for lost shipments, I'd SE the lot with the DNA.

No doubt a lengthy claims process will be expected.

I always do a final once-over of TOS before ordering, and it seems I somehow missed this portion of one of their pages - I'm not sure if it's new, or if I blatantly missed it because it was under the "insurance" section and isn't mentioned in their TOS, where they don't state anything about liability with lost/stolen packages, and only mention the possibility of a signature - but it seems this changes things.

"Versace insures all items against theft and accidental damage whilst in transit until it is delivered to the shipping address. Once your items have been delivered to the specified delivery address and signed for, they are no longer covered by insurance.
If your box is damaged upon arrival, we recommend that you either refuse the delivery, or make a note when signing for its receipt that you are accepting a damaged box."

And

"Orders ship from our U.S. warehouse on business days (excluding national holidays); a signature is required for a successfully delivery."

The only mention in their TOS is where they state that "In Versace's discretion, signature by an adult may be required as a condition to make delivery."


I know that there is always the "fake signature" route, but given these terms, would you attempt still - and prepare to play that angle - or not bother?
I feel a bit silly having missed an important point, but that's why I always double check.

Thank you again for all your help, I really appreciate it! Sorry to bother you with this again.

[mothered]

they don't state anything about liability with lost/stolen packages

They do - through their very own Insurance cover:

"Versace insures all items against theft and accidental damage whilst in transit until it is delivered to the shipping address. Once your items have been delivered to the specified delivery address and signed for, they are no longer covered by insurance.

The Insurance denotes Versace's liability for the said reasons above. Anything beyond that Is your responsibility.

And

[i]"Orders ship from our U.S. warehouse on business days (excluding national holidays); a signature is required for a successfully delivery."

The only mention in their TOS is where they state that "In Versace's discretion, signature by an adult may be required as a condition to make delivery."

I know that there is always the "fake signature" route, but given these terms, would you attempt still - and prepare to play that angle - or not bother?

A signature Is a useless form of delivery verification, for the fact that anyone could've signed, even the driver - which I continue to experience on a weekly basis.

I feel a bit silly having missed an important point, but that's why I always double check.

Don't be hard on yourself, things are easily overlooked.

Thank you again for all your help, I really appreciate it! Sorry to bother you with this again.

No need to apologize, It's my pleasure to be of help.

[kyungchul]

A signature Is a useless form of delivery verification, for the fact that anyone could've signed, even the driver - which I continue to experience on a weekly basis.

You and me both - drivers forging signatures or leaving them blank has been a constant for the last couple years, which has greatly aided my ventures.
(Aside from when the business then says "it doesn't matter who signs for it, it doesn't have to be the customer, and once the driver has recorded any signature/releases the item at the address, the liability is passed onto you.. Doesn't matter if it's some stranger off the street who happens to be standing in the vicinity of your house." - Truly the most frustrating response/policy I've come across.)

Hmm, I think I will reach out to their customer service and poke around a bit to determine if a signature is always required/if my order will likely have one, and if they consider a package to be "delivered" regardless of who signs it, or if insurance leaves room for instances where the driver leaves it unattended/fake signs/it is not delivered to the actual customer.

Depending on their answers, I may still attempt an order/SE, and plan to return it/chargeback upon failure, or I may decide better of it, and look for overpriced, truly unnecessary items elsewhere.
If I attempt an SE with this company, I'll be sure to update here in the future in case anyone seeks to give them a try!

You're an invaluable resource, and your time has been greatly appreciated!

[mothered]

I think I will reach out to their customer service and poke around a bit to determine if a signature is always required/if my order will likely have one

You can certainly contact CS, but there's really no need to.

If only a signature Is required, Its verification Is easily rendered Inconclusive.

and if they consider a package to be "delivered" regardless of who signs it

They will.

Whoever signs, Is an authorized recipient which Is no different to when you sign.

or if insurance leaves room for instances where the driver leaves it unattended/fake signs/it is not delivered to the actual customer.

In short, they've covered themselves nicely In their terms, whereby they'll use GPS/tracking to mark the consignment delivered.

After the delivery reaches the correct address, It then becomes your responsibility.

Depending on their answers, I may still attempt an order/SE

I'm very Interested In all events that take place.

If you go through with It, please tag me.

and plan to return it/chargeback upon failure, or I may decide better of it, and look for overpriced, truly unnecessary items elsewhere.
If I attempt an SE with this company, I'll be sure to update here in the future in case anyone seeks to give them a try!

What I like about your SEing, Is the fact that you take the time to thoroughly research every angle prior to executing your attack.

Moreover, your approach Is realistic, and not overthinking the SE nor applying an overkill. 

You're an invaluable resource, and your time has been greatly appreciated!

You're most welcome.

Thanks for your kind words.

[Kikibosum]

A signature Is a useless form of delivery verification, for the fact that anyone could've signed, even the driver - which I continue to experience on a weekly basis.

You and me both - drivers forging signatures or leaving them blank has been a constant for the last couple years, which has greatly aided my ventures.
(Aside from when the business then says "it doesn't matter who signs for it, it doesn't have to be the customer, and once the driver has recorded any signature/releases the item at the address, the liability is passed onto you.. Doesn't matter if it's some stranger off the street who happens to be standing in the vicinity of your house." - Truly the most frustrating response/policy I've come across.)

Hmm, I think I will reach out to their customer service and poke around a bit to determine if a signature is always required/if my order will likely have one, and if they consider a package to be "delivered" regardless of who signs it, or if insurance leaves room for instances where the driver leaves it unattended/fake signs/it is not delivered to the actual customer.

Depending on their answers, I may still attempt an order/SE, and plan to return it/chargeback upon failure, or I may decide better of it, and look for overpriced, truly unnecessary items elsewhere.
If I attempt an SE with this company, I'll be sure to update here in the future in case anyone seeks to give them a try!

You're an invaluable resource, and your time has been greatly appreciated!

Any updates sir ?

[kyungchul]

A signature Is a useless form of delivery verification, for the fact that anyone could've signed, even the driver - which I continue to experience on a weekly basis.

You and me both - drivers forging signatures or leaving them blank has been a constant for the last couple years, which has greatly aided my ventures.
(Aside from when the business then says "it doesn't matter who signs for it, it doesn't have to be the customer, and once the driver has recorded any signature/releases the item at the address, the liability is passed onto you.. Doesn't matter if it's some stranger off the street who happens to be standing in the vicinity of your house." - Truly the most frustrating response/policy I've come across.)

Hmm, I think I will reach out to their customer service and poke around a bit to determine if a signature is always required/if my order will likely have one, and if they consider a package to be "delivered" regardless of who signs it, or if insurance leaves room for instances where the driver leaves it unattended/fake signs/it is not delivered to the actual customer.

Depending on their answers, I may still attempt an order/SE, and plan to return it/chargeback upon failure, or I may decide better of it, and look for overpriced, truly unnecessary items elsewhere.
If I attempt an SE with this company, I'll be sure to update here in the future in case anyone seeks to give them a try!

You're an invaluable resource, and your time has been greatly appreciated!

Any updates sir ?

Ma'am*

I have not yet ordered from Versace directly. I did reach out to them for clarification on their insurance policy, and received the following response:
"Versace insures all items against theft and accidental damage whilst in transit until it is delivered to the shipping address. Once your items have been delivered to the specified delivery address and signed for, they are no longer covered by insurance.

If a parcel is reported as not received by a client, we have procedures in place to reach a resolution.

If your box is damaged upon arrival, we recommend that you either refuse the delivery, or make a note when signing for its receipt that you are accepting a damaged box. "

My assumption based on this is that they will absolutely open a carrier investigation if you claim the order was not delivered, and depending on the carrier you may or may not have any luck of your claim being approved, and then receiving a reshipment/refund.

In my area for example, DHL consistently leaves packages that have a signature requirement sitting wherever the fuck their lazy asses feel like, and either fake sign for it themselves, or don't even bother to obtain a fake signature and instead later lie and claim the name indicated on the shipping label signed for it.
Unfortunately, my experience with the DHL "claims"/carrier investigation process is that they also never admit when they're wrong or blatantly violated their own signature requirements, so you're usually going to end up SOL with them.
I've had more luck with UPS/FedEx - though they're often better about actually requiring you sign for it, not that that "means anything" necessarily - and their claims process, but it's not always fruitful and they can be just as scummy.

It seems like they at least accept liability for packages marked delivered but not received in some circumstances, but I would imagine it will be an uphill battle regardless.
I still plan to try them eventually, but had some other orders I wanted to prioritize first before getting into a potentially long process/battle with Versace direct. When I do them in the future, I will be sure to update here, though it may be a few months.

[Kikibosum]

---

You and me both - drivers forging signatures or leaving them blank has been a constant for the last couple years, which has greatly aided my ventures.
(Aside from when the business then says "it doesn't matter who signs for it, it doesn't have to be the customer, and once the driver has recorded any signature/releases the item at the address, the liability is passed onto you.. Doesn't matter if it's some stranger off the street who happens to be standing in the vicinity of your house." - Truly the most frustrating response/policy I've come across.)

Hmm, I think I will reach out to their customer service and poke around a bit to determine if a signature is always required/if my order will likely have one, and if they consider a package to be "delivered" regardless of who signs it, or if insurance leaves room for instances where the driver leaves it unattended/fake signs/it is not delivered to the actual customer.

Depending on their answers, I may still attempt an order/SE, and plan to return it/chargeback upon failure, or I may decide better of it, and look for overpriced, truly unnecessary items elsewhere.
If I attempt an SE with this company, I'll be sure to update here in the future in case anyone seeks to give them a try!

You're an invaluable resource, and your time has been greatly appreciated!

Any updates sir ?

Ma'am*

I have not yet ordered from Versace directly. I did reach out to them for clarification on their insurance policy, and received the following response:
"Versace insures all items against theft and accidental damage whilst in transit until it is delivered to the shipping address. Once your items have been delivered to the specified delivery address and signed for, they are no longer covered by insurance.

If a parcel is reported as not received by a client, we have procedures in place to reach a resolution.

If your box is damaged upon arrival, we recommend that you either refuse the delivery, or make a note when signing for its receipt that you are accepting a damaged box. "

My assumption based on this is that they will absolutely open a carrier investigation if you claim the order was not delivered, and depending on the carrier you may or may not have any luck of your claim being approved, and then receiving a reshipment/refund.

In my area for example, DHL consistently leaves packages that have a signature requirement sitting wherever the fuck their lazy asses feel like, and either fake sign for it themselves, or don't even bother to obtain a fake signature and instead later lie and claim the name indicated on the shipping label signed for it.
Unfortunately, my experience with the DHL "claims"/carrier investigation process is that they also never admit when they're wrong or blatantly violated their own signature requirements, so you're usually going to end up SOL with them.
I've had more luck with UPS/FedEx - though they're often better about actually requiring you sign for it, not that that "means anything" necessarily - and their claims process, but it's not always fruitful and they can be just as scummy.

It seems like they at least accept liability for packages marked delivered but not received in some circumstances, but I would imagine it will be an uphill battle regardless.
I still plan to try them eventually, but had some other orders I wanted to prioritize first before getting into a potentially long process/battle with Versace direct. When I do them in the future, I will be sure to update here, though it may be a few months.

Okay, I understand. I was planning to hit them with the Medusa Biggie glasses and pretend an empty box, but i would take more information about the CS.

[kyungchul]

---

Any updates sir ?

Ma'am*

I have not yet ordered from Versace directly. I did reach out to them for clarification on their insurance policy, and received the following response:
"Versace insures all items against theft and accidental damage whilst in transit until it is delivered to the shipping address. Once your items have been delivered to the specified delivery address and signed for, they are no longer covered by insurance.

If a parcel is reported as not received by a client, we have procedures in place to reach a resolution.

If your box is damaged upon arrival, we recommend that you either refuse the delivery, or make a note when signing for its receipt that you are accepting a damaged box. "

My assumption based on this is that they will absolutely open a carrier investigation if you claim the order was not delivered, and depending on the carrier you may or may not have any luck of your claim being approved, and then receiving a reshipment/refund.

In my area for example, DHL consistently leaves packages that have a signature requirement sitting wherever the fuck their lazy asses feel like, and either fake sign for it themselves, or don't even bother to obtain a fake signature and instead later lie and claim the name indicated on the shipping label signed for it.
Unfortunately, my experience with the DHL "claims"/carrier investigation process is that they also never admit when they're wrong or blatantly violated their own signature requirements, so you're usually going to end up SOL with them.
I've had more luck with UPS/FedEx - though they're often better about actually requiring you sign for it, not that that "means anything" necessarily - and their claims process, but it's not always fruitful and they can be just as scummy.

It seems like they at least accept liability for packages marked delivered but not received in some circumstances, but I would imagine it will be an uphill battle regardless.
I still plan to try them eventually, but had some other orders I wanted to prioritize first before getting into a potentially long process/battle with Versace direct. When I do them in the future, I will be sure to update here, though it may be a few months.

Okay, I understand. I was planning to hit them with the Medusa Biggie glasses and pretend an empty box, but i would take more information about the CS.

Of course you're always welcome to try, and I can't possibly know without having tried myself, but my guess would be that EB is not going to work very well with them.
They specifically state that it is on the customer to check the package before signing for it, and either not accept it if something is missing/damaged, or if you sign for it anyway, you accept liability by doing so.

"8.2. Any anomalies identified at the time of delivery, including, without limitation, any tampering or damage to the packaging, damage to the Products, missing items, non-conformity to the Products ordered, defective Products, etc. (hereinafter “Defects”), can be indicated by You directly to the Courier or to Versace immediately upon delivery. In such circumstance You will not be required to accept the Products and may return them directly to the Courier."

As well as

Versace insures all items against theft and accidental damage whilst in transit until it is delivered to the shipping address. Once your items have been delivered to the specified delivery address and signed for, they are no longer covered by insurance.

I would almost guarantee that they check over things very carefully before shipping, as well, but it seems that they don't leave much room for you to claim they didn't either way.

If the glasses are sold anywhere else, I would probably opt to try another shop first. There are some items I want to attempt that are only available via Versace direct, but given their pretty stiff policy, it's something I'm going to wait on until I have time to potentially have to battle it out.

[Kikibosum]

---

Ma'am*

I have not yet ordered from Versace directly. I did reach out to them for clarification on their insurance policy, and received the following response:
"Versace insures all items against theft and accidental damage whilst in transit until it is delivered to the shipping address. Once your items have been delivered to the specified delivery address and signed for, they are no longer covered by insurance.

If a parcel is reported as not received by a client, we have procedures in place to reach a resolution.

If your box is damaged upon arrival, we recommend that you either refuse the delivery, or make a note when signing for its receipt that you are accepting a damaged box. "

My assumption based on this is that they will absolutely open a carrier investigation if you claim the order was not delivered, and depending on the carrier you may or may not have any luck of your claim being approved, and then receiving a reshipment/refund.

In my area for example, DHL consistently leaves packages that have a signature requirement sitting wherever the fuck their lazy asses feel like, and either fake sign for it themselves, or don't even bother to obtain a fake signature and instead later lie and claim the name indicated on the shipping label signed for it.
Unfortunately, my experience with the DHL "claims"/carrier investigation process is that they also never admit when they're wrong or blatantly violated their own signature requirements, so you're usually going to end up SOL with them.
I've had more luck with UPS/FedEx - though they're often better about actually requiring you sign for it, not that that "means anything" necessarily - and their claims process, but it's not always fruitful and they can be just as scummy.

It seems like they at least accept liability for packages marked delivered but not received in some circumstances, but I would imagine it will be an uphill battle regardless.
I still plan to try them eventually, but had some other orders I wanted to prioritize first before getting into a potentially long process/battle with Versace direct. When I do them in the future, I will be sure to update here, though it may be a few months.

Okay, I understand. I was planning to hit them with the Medusa Biggie glasses and pretend an empty box, but i would take more information about the CS.

Of course you're always welcome to try, and I can't possibly know without having tried myself, but my guess would be that EB is not going to work very well with them.
They specifically state that it is on the customer to check the package before signing for it, and either not accept it if something is missing/damaged, or if you sign for it anyway, you accept liability by doing so.

"8.2. Any anomalies identified at the time of delivery, including, without limitation, any tampering or damage to the packaging, damage to the Products, missing items, non-conformity to the Products ordered, defective Products, etc. (hereinafter “Defects”), can be indicated by You directly to the Courier or to Versace immediately upon delivery. In such circumstance You will not be required to accept the Products and may return them directly to the Courier."

As well as

Versace insures all items against theft and accidental damage whilst in transit until it is delivered to the shipping address. Once your items have been delivered to the specified delivery address and signed for, they are no longer covered by insurance.

I would almost guarantee that they check over things very carefully before shipping, as well, but it seems that they don't leave much room for you to claim they didn't either way.

If the glasses are sold anywhere else, I would probably opt to try another shop first. There are some items I want to attempt that are only available via Versace direct, but given their pretty stiff policy, it's something I'm going to wait on until I have time to potentially have to battle it out.

I see. Having said that, I would like to tell you that a company's sales conditions and its ability to handle a problem can be very different. To my recollection, Levi's stated almost the same thing in their T&C's but they handled refunds well and were pretty straightforward.

I think you would benefit from trying it, try a DNA and if it really doesn't work, return the product normally.

Luxury brands are sometimes easier to hit since their image is more important than other companies, and especially a lot less customers do SE. Your case will likely be taken very seriously, which could lead to a fairly simple refund.