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Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - Printable Version

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Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - chesterbeatdeath - 03-14-2018

https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

I just discovered this phone being released in 2019 that will be running open source GNU/UNIX distros and will basically be able to act as a computer you can make phone calls on. I'm huge into Linux and open-source software and am very unhappy with the current phone market as far as privacy and security go. I would be extremely happy to have an Ubuntu box in my pocket that I can make encrypted (by default) calls and texts on. I'm a very poor little hacker with a meager stream of income refurbishing any computer I can get my hands on and doing repair work where I can get it, so I'll be saving up all year so I can snag one come the release date in 2019, but I think it will be well worth it. No more having to lug around an entire extra computer so I can have Linux with me on the job should I need it! No more being tracked and spied on at every conceivable turn!
It sounds almost unreal, but I am very excited.
Anyone else looking forward to this? You'll be able to freely modify everything including the hardware without losing support. It has kill switches for every function of the machine. It just seems beautiful.
Thought I'd share. Seems like a good choice for those of us of a mind to find a place like SL and do the things we do.
Again, beautiful.

RE: Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - mothered - 03-14-2018

(03-14-2018, 08:52 AM)thehorridness Wrote: No more being tracked and spied on at every conceivable turn!

This alone, Is a major reason why I'd purchase the phone.

It's about time the developers are looking at things from a consumer's standpoint.

RE: Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - Jiggly - 03-14-2018

While I am unlikely to purchase one of these myself, this does seem pretty interesting. I'd like to see how well it does.



They've got a whole bunch of updates on their twitter. Worth looking if you're interested.
https://twitter.com/Puri_sm

RE: Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - Blink - 03-14-2018

There's some serious marketing bullshit on that page...
Notably:
[Image: qazibb.png]
[Image: wvkiqd.png]

Android is based on Linux, and is open source. iOS is mostly open too. What does "multi layer security" even mean, it sounds like iOS has it, but that's way too vague

RE: Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - chesterbeatdeath - 03-14-2018

(03-14-2018, 06:11 PM)Ender Wrote: There's some serious marketing bullshit on that page...
Notably:
[Image: qazibb.png]
[Image: wvkiqd.png]

Android is based on Linux, and is open source.  iOS is mostly open too.  What does "multi layer security" even mean, it sounds like iOS has it, but that's way too vague

I personally have never found anything Apple releases to be very "open" at all. They're probably talking about the phone using LUKS and dm-crypt in tandem with a possible third layer with something like bcrypt which is easy enough to add in as well.
Of course there are reasons to be skeptical, but I don't see Google or Apple offering an entire platform of communication dedicated to your privacy and them having few ways of getting at your call logs and messages.
The fact that their entire marketing gimmick is privacy, with hardware specs taking a backseat to kill switches and encryption, not to mention allowing the device to run whatever open source OS you decide to install in the end, gives me a little more faith in the project than any Android flavor or iOS release any other company is offering up.
Just my 2c.

RE: Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - phyrrus9 - 03-14-2018

I need to point out a lot of false statements in this image regarding iOS:
[Image: dQPG5dF.png]

1. User controls device - this is (at worst) a partial. The user does have full control of the device, however the user has to sign his code. This is not difficult, since code signatures are given for free.
2. Trackers disabled by default - they are, and in fact you are prompted if you want to enable them when you set the device up.
3. Privacy protection by default - Apple uses multilayer encryption on the file system (3 layers), the apps (2 layers) and even in RAM (2 layers).
4. Does not track you - again, this does not happen unless you explicitly enable it
5. Layered security protection - I answered this one in #3, but that's just for user data. For everything else, the XNU kernel provides the most secure environment the world has seen to this point
6. Runs GNU+Linux - no, iOS does not. iOS runs BSD with an open source XNU kernel
7. Separates CPU from Cellular baseband - iPhones have done this since 2008. They're not only physically separate chips, but the baseband actually has its own operating system separate from iOS
8. IP-Native communication first - wtf does this even mean? Is this implying that iOS and Android force you to use RAW sockets or UDP?
9. Decentralized Communication by Default - actually, iOS does have this. It's literally the model that the kernel uses. Since XNU is used, every process has IPC, XPC, and Bonjour available to it to communicate with other processes, services, and the outside world (respectively) in a peer to peer way.

So, do I think this phone is neat?
NO
Does their feature sheet check out?
Not even close. they were only right 1 time. That's 89% lies.
Is this just another glorified android phone with some SELinux profiles that probably still runs Java (the world's most INsecure environment?
Yeah pretty much.

RE: Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - phyrrus9 - 03-14-2018

(03-14-2018, 08:53 PM)thehorridness Wrote: I personally have never found anything Apple releases to be very "open" at all.

That's interesting you say that, seeing as the ENTIRE operating system is open source and available on their website.... Some components are proprietary (like APIC, ACPI, sandboxd, and some cs enforcement profiles), but all of the code is there for you to build an OS from it. In fact, Apple even provides a non-encrypted, unsigned enabled, all symbols intact, debugger can read the source code version of the entire kernel for you to download and just drop in place if you like. @"Ender" and I were discussing that just the other day.

RE: Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - chesterbeatdeath - 03-14-2018

Damn, son. No need to get all riled up, especially when referencing a conversation I wasn't there for(?).
I just thought it was a neat idea. As for Apple being open, you may be correct (links to unencrypted kernel?) but I've never seen an iPhone running an open distro with open access to the hardware and a mainstay of the program being kill switches on things you don't want running at any given time.
I honestly don't know that much about Apple. Never had a need to use their products. I have been using Linux since I was a wee lad, and obviously have as much passion about it as you seem to have about Apple.
Skepticism is good, again I'll say, but I do like references to things I wasn't aware of as opposed to getting angry over someone trying to sell a product they're puting time and effort into developing.
Lord knows no one has ever done that before. Not like iPhones don't run into the thousand dollar mark or anything like that.
Not trying to insult anyone. Really would like a link to Apple's source code so I could take a peek. And referencing a conversation not all of us were privy to without a link while getting infuriated over capitalism is a tad extreme.
I just like the phone and the idea behind it.

RE: Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - phyrrus9 - 03-14-2018

(03-14-2018, 10:07 PM)thehorridness Wrote: Damn, son. No need to get all riled up, especially when referencing a conversation I wasn't there for(?).
I just thought it was a neat idea. As for Apple being open, you may be correct (links to unencrypted kernel?) but I've never seen an iPhone running an open distro with open access to the hardware and a mainstay of the program being kill switches on things you don't want running at any given time.
As for iOS, the kernel hasn't been encrypted on disk since 10.0-DB1
For MacOS: https://download.developer.apple.com/Developer_Tools/Kernel_Debug_Kit_10.13.4_build_17E182a.dmg/Kernel_Debug_Kit_10.13.4_build_17E182a.dmg
[Image: 00tpd65.png]

(03-14-2018, 10:07 PM)thehorridness Wrote: I honestly don't know that much about Apple. Never had a need to use their products. I have been using Linux since I was a wee lad, and obviously have as much passion about it as you seem to have about Apple.
Skepticism is good, again I'll say, but I do like references to things I wasn't aware of as opposed to getting angry over someone trying to sell a product they're puting time and effort into developing.

This isn't fanboy-ism, this is just factual information. Apple has been using open source UNIX since 2001, that's the point of the X in OSX. In Apple's own words: "X is UNIX". The updated version isn't quite the same text, but it affirms it pretty easily
[Image: CXtkPCf.png]

(03-14-2018, 10:07 PM)thehorridness Wrote: Lord knows no one has ever done that before. Not like iPhones don't run into the thousand dollar mark or anything like that.

They don't. Currently Apple offers 3 models of the same generation iPhone. The 8 ($699), the 8 Plus ($799), and the X ($999). This is a pretty consistent spread with the market, Google is doing the same thing.

(03-14-2018, 10:07 PM)thehorridness Wrote: Not trying to insult anyone. Really would like a link to Apple's source code so I could take a peek. And referencing a conversation not all of us were privy to without a link while getting infuriated over capitalism is a tad extreme.
I just like the phone and the idea behind it.

Apple posts about 70% of its open source components over at https://opensource.apple.com/, the rest are behind the developer portal.
[Image: BF3kNCu.png]

The entire kernel (XNU) is open source:
[Image: CKsF4JG.png]
link

And there are (Apple run) projects targeted at running Darwin and XNU on non-Apple hardware. It's called MacOS Forge

RE: Librem 5: An Open-Source Phone - chesterbeatdeath - 03-14-2018

Okay. Neat stuff. Still don't see why it necessitates hating on a phone that hasn't come out yet.
Again, just thought the idea behind the Librem is a good one. Also never seen Apple invite people to run Puppy Linux or anything on their phones the way this company is apparently stating you can put whatever the smack you want on the hardware you get from them.
And your argument is factual, but it does have a hint of reactionary fanboyism to it. Sorry, just how the post comes across.
I just think Librem 5 is gonna be cool. That's all.