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+---- Thread: Gun control (/Thread-Gun-control--181034)
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Gun control - moldypercocet - 02-05-2023
Thoughts on Canadians may be losing all semi auto guns
RE: Gun control - Oni - 02-05-2023
"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
RE: Gun control - Jiggly - 02-05-2023
(02-05-2023, 09:18 AM)Oni Wrote: "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
As someone who owns guns, what's your perspective on the arguments over types of guns? There are plenty who say "yeah a pistol or shotgun makes sense, but would you ever need a machine gun or semi auto?".
RE: Gun control - Oni - 02-05-2023
It sounds like they withdrew proposed measures banning certain firearms:
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-withdraws-proposed-measures-banning-certain-rifles-shotguns-2023-02-03/
(02-05-2023, 12:49 PM)Jiggly Wrote:(02-05-2023, 09:18 AM)Oni Wrote: "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
As someone who owns guns, what's your perspective on the arguments over types of guns? There are plenty who say "yeah a pistol or shotgun makes sense, but would you ever need a machine gun or semi auto?".
The type doesn't matter. Someone that is determined and willing to break the law will always find a way. You can't pretend technology that has existed for 100+ years simply doesn't.
RE: Gun control - brianthedude557 - 02-13-2023
the BF quote is pretty corny considering the era we live in now days. It isnt 1776, theres no need to arm up you arent fighting anyone anymore. And I guess a argument can be made for small handguns/shotguns but theres no reason your average joe should be able to walk into a walmart at 18 and purchase a whole ass assault rifle. Its ridiculous. And for those crazy nationalist that think they need to arm incase they have to fight the government is ridiculous. as if there was a real threat from the government anyone could do anything about it. Its just people being fed fear and therefore contributing into the gun market. an endless cycle.
RE: Gun control - Confidential - 02-14-2023
Proponents of the ban argue that it will help stop gun violence and increase public safety, but in my opinion it infringes on the rights of the people who use these guns for legal and legitimate reasons. These people have a right to own and use these guns and the ban (in my opinion) unfairly targets them without addressing the underlying issues that actually lead to gun violence. Like they say, "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Banning semi-auto firearms isn't gonna stop gun violence, lmao. You have to take factors like mental health, poverty, and social inequality in mind when trying to find the root of gun violence.
By just straight up banning semi-auto firearms, the government is really just ignoring the deeper issues that contribute to gun violence. Not only that, but the ban is just gonna lead to unintended consequences (black markets for different guns for example). So, to be honest, this could actually INCREASE the number of guns getting passed around and make it harder for law enforcement to track and control the distributions of these guns. With all that being said, I understand that the ban on semi-automatic firearms in Canada may be well-intentioned, but they need to think decisions like this through and consider the potential consequences.
(02-13-2023, 03:40 PM)brianthedude557 Wrote: the BF quote is pretty corny considering the era we live in now days. It isnt 1776, theres no need to arm up you arent fighting anyone anymore. And I guess a argument can be made for small handguns/shotguns but theres no reason your average joe should be able to walk into a walmart at 18 and purchase a whole ass assault rifle. Its ridiculous. And for those crazy nationalist that think they need to arm incase they have to fight the government is ridiculous. as if there was a real threat from the government anyone could do anything about it. Its just people being fed fear and therefore contributing into the gun market. an endless cycle.
Quote:It isnt 1776, theres no need to arm up you arent fighting anyone anymoreYeah, it's not 1776, but the right to bear arms still remains a fundamental part of certain cultures and traditions. I don't know about you, but I like being able to defend myself.
Quote:theres no reason your average joe should be able to walk into a walmart at 18 and purchase a whole ass assault rifle. Its ridiculous.Guns can be used for lots of different things, you know. You ever heard of hunting, sport shooting, or self-defense? Also, many gun owners enjoy collecting and shooting these guns as a hobby.
Quote:And for those crazy nationalist that think they need to arm incase they have to fight the government is ridiculous.What you just said right there overlooks the fact that throughout history, governments have been known to abuse their power and oppress their citizens. Yeah, it's unlikely that a citizen-led rebellion would be successful against a fucking military force, but still, the ability to defend yourself against government tyranny is still an important aspect of individual liberty.
RE: Gun control - Jiggly - 02-15-2023
(02-05-2023, 06:08 PM)Oni Wrote: It sounds like they withdrew proposed measures banning certain firearms:
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-withdraws-proposed-measures-banning-certain-rifles-shotguns-2023-02-03/
(02-05-2023, 12:49 PM)Jiggly Wrote:(02-05-2023, 09:18 AM)Oni Wrote: "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
As someone who owns guns, what's your perspective on the arguments over types of guns? There are plenty who say "yeah a pistol or shotgun makes sense, but would you ever need a machine gun or semi auto?".
The type doesn't matter. Someone that is determined and willing to break the law will always find a way. You can't pretend technology that has existed for 100+ years simply doesn't.
This is true. Murder is illegal, so why does making the tool illegal make any difference? If someone can show me the science where that works, then I'll happily be wrong. However, what I've researched so far suggests it doesn't work.
(02-13-2023, 03:40 PM)brianthedude557 Wrote: the BF quote is pretty corny considering the era we live in now days. It isnt 1776, theres no need to arm up you arent fighting anyone anymore. And I guess a argument can be made for small handguns/shotguns but theres no reason your average joe should be able to walk into a walmart at 18 and purchase a whole ass assault rifle. Its ridiculous. And for those crazy nationalist that think they need to arm incase they have to fight the government is ridiculous. as if there was a real threat from the government anyone could do anything about it. Its just people being fed fear and therefore contributing into the gun market. an endless cycle.
Given the number of guns currently already in circulation, what would you suggest the solution to gun violence is?
(02-14-2023, 07:51 AM)Confidential Wrote: Proponents of the ban argue that it will help stop gun violence and increase public safety, but in my opinion it infringes on the rights of the people who use these guns for legal and legitimate reasons. These people have a right to own and use these guns and the ban (in my opinion) unfairly targets them without addressing the underlying issues that actually lead to gun violence. Like they say, "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Banning semi-auto firearms isn't gonna stop gun violence, lmao. You have to take factors like mental health, poverty, and social inequality in mind when trying to find the root of gun violence.
By just straight up banning semi-auto firearms, the government is really just ignoring the deeper issues that contribute to gun violence. Not only that, but the ban is just gonna lead to unintended consequences (black markets for different guns for example). So, to be honest, this could actually INCREASE the number of guns getting passed around and make it harder for law enforcement to track and control the distributions of these guns. With all that being said, I understand that the ban on semi-automatic firearms in Canada may be well-intentioned, but they need to think decisions like this through and consider the potential consequences.
This kind of thinking is what I think too. What will be the real consequences? Does it create an untraceable black market (cue another prohibition era), does it mean people produce home-made 3D printed weapons? What do you do about all the guns currently in existence?
Take a look at the UK. Very little guns in the country. We also have very little homicide (cultural and economical differences make a huge impact on that), but we still have terrorist attacks. They didn't need guns to kill people. They made bombs instead, or used vehicles to ram people. The tool is just a tool, the real problem is the people wanting to commit the act. In a country where certain tools are already pretty inaccessible, it's easier to enforce bans on them. In a country where they're everywhere - How do you stop someone illegally getting hold of one?
No-one has managed to stop underage kids getting hold of alcohol from stores. Now try and stop them getting hold of a gun that's probably in their own house.
RE: Gun control - brianthedude557 - 02-15-2023
not going to bother responding to everyones points but at the end of the day the mass shooting and gun problem is an american problem. your irrational desire and admiration of guns / the normalization of it is the root cause. Ask yourself why, why should you feel the need to buy a gun, because you dont feel protected. Why dont you feel protected, who is supposed to protect you. Instead of advocating for change you buy into the gun market. its literally an endless cycle. Its an america problem. more shootings than calendar days so far in the USA, crazy. ive lived in third world countries where gun violence and gangs and drugs ran rampant but not once did i ever fear for my life going to get groceries or going to school. It is definitely a people and gun problem with the latter just being a means for the people. You can sit and argue as long as you want that a criminal will find a way or quote an obscure article on something that happened once every 5-10 years or quote some bus or metro stabbing in another country but the truth of the matter is a buy back program and the ban of guns in the united states would most definitely be for the better. Re distribution of those funds into better social services and re-training for police is what they need imo. There is no reason children should have ever been slaughtered in their classrooms but I suppose things wont change unless its those greedy republicans or second amendment loving parents whose children get shot.
also americans have this irrational fear that crime will for sure rise up and then gangs and black market dealers will control the guns in america and it will be an even more dangerous place. Literally take a glass of cold water and look at the country you live in, you dont live in syria or some middle eastern / african conflict ridden country. Most of the gun nuts live in gated communities and are middle to upper class. Its trully ridiculous how unsafe you guys make your OWN country. And then you fear monger people by feeding it some horror story based on fiction that all hell will break lose in the usa if normal people cant carry guns. You already live in one of the "best" countries in the world. its so crazy how badly americans want to feel opressed and endangered
RE: Gun control - Jiggly - 02-15-2023
(02-15-2023, 05:50 PM)brianthedude557 Wrote: not going to bother responding to everyones points but at the end of the day the mass shooting and gun problem is an american problem. your irrational desire and admiration of guns / the normalization of it is the root cause. Ask yourself why, why should you feel the need to buy a gun, because you dont feel protected. Why dont you feel protected, who is supposed to protect you. Instead of advocating for change you buy into the gun market. its literally an endless cycle. Its an america problem. more shootings than calendar days so far in the USA, crazy. ive lived in third world countries where gun violence and gangs and drugs ran rampant but not once did i ever fear for my life going to get groceries or going to school. It is definitely a people and gun problem with the latter just being a means for the people. You can sit and argue as long as you want that a criminal will find a way or quote an obscure article on something that happened once every 5-10 years or quote some bus or metro stabbing in another country but the truth of the matter is a buy back program and the ban of guns in the united states would most definitely be for the better. Re distribution of those funds into better social services and re-training for police is what they need imo. There is no reason children should have ever been slaughtered in their classrooms but I suppose things wont change unless its those greedy republicans or second amendment loving parents whose children get shot.
also americans have this irrational fear that crime will for sure rise up and then gangs and black market dealers will control the guns in america and it will be an even more dangerous place. Literally take a glass of cold water and look at the country you live in, you dont live in syria or some middle eastern / african conflict ridden country. Most of the gun nuts live in gated communities and are middle to upper class. Its trully ridiculous how unsafe you guys make your OWN country. And then you fear monger people by feeding it some horror story based on fiction that all hell will break lose in the usa if normal people cant carry guns. You already live in one of the "best" countries in the world. its so crazy how badly americans want to feel opressed and endangered
One thing to add: Mass shootings do occur outside of America, just not as many. Something to take into account. If gun-loving was the route cause, we wouldn't see mass shootings outside of gun-loving countries. The root cause isn't this.
Buy back program is interesting, but in the states that would cost more than any government could afford to pay without massively raising taxes on all citizens (ironicly haha!).
I do think there is some fear mongering and hardcore "us vs them" mentality with this Republican vs Democrat, black and white view of it's citizens. There's a lot more to American's thoughts and morals than those two political parties.
For reference: My viewpoints are my own, and are given with the basis of being raised in a country where guns are mostly banned. I spent time living in the US and have friends from all different viewpoints. I don't like guns much, but the biggest problem I can see, is 1) you are never going to change people's minds about wanting to protect themselves, and 2) what on earth do you do about the guns that are already there. I tend to lean towards "education" as a solution to a lot of problems. I think it would be a good idea if people spent more time understanding why people think differently, instead of labelling and calling names. It would also be good if more people had a basic understanding of how these weapons work. Some of the drills schools have planned for active shooters are shocking. They need to learn how to deal with new reality of mass shootings. It's not going away.
RE: Gun control - Oni - 02-15-2023
(02-15-2023, 05:50 PM)brianthedude557 Wrote: a buy back program and the ban of guns in the united states would most definitely be for the better.
“Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids.” - Clint Eastwood