+- Sinisterly (https://sinister.li)
+-- Forum: Hacking (https://sinister.li/Forum-Hacking)
+--- Forum: Social Engineering (https://sinister.li/Forum-Social-Engineering)
+--- Thread: Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID (/Thread-Refund-report-Amazon-Paypal-and-the-so-called-FTID)
Pages:
1
2
Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID - futterbuckz - 03-09-2021
Hey everyone. So, after quite my share of DNA and EB refunds, I recently started using more varied techniques. This post is designed to help those who want to try them but are too unsure of what to do...
1. The sealed box method:
As Mothered explains in his extremely well-made SE website, the sealed box method has a very high rate of success provided you do a clean job.
My last attempt was made off Amazon, $400 value, good standing account that was once flagged for too many DNAs. First thing is to check on the mailing label if a weight is written anywhere. That's a good cue as to how much your box and packaging should weight. Then, open the Amazon packaging and weight the actual item box. Take a lot of pictures of the box in its original shape so you don't have to remember how everything was when you follow the next steps. Then, carefully open the seal wrap with a box cutter along three edges, so as to make a flap that you can open to slide the box out of. Now empty the contents of the box (i.e. the actual item) and replace them with anything of approximately the same weight and shape, so that it doesn't end up moving inside the box afterwards (if you put something with a serial number on it, think of hiding it). No need to exactly match the original weight as long as you stay within a 2oz difference.
Now that you've put your dummy inside the box, it's time to reseal it. If you know how to use an impulse sealer and have some shrink wrap bags, you can simply scrap the original wrap after ungluing any sticker that came with it. Make sure you do a clean job with the seal lines and don't forget to reglue the stickers. If you're lazy like me, you can also use very thin strips of clear tape to "seal" the flap you've opened earlier -- the tape will run along the edges of the box and will essentially be invisible.
Finally, ask for an RMA and return that shit. Yes, it's that easy.
2. The Paypal method/FTID variation:
This one is a fun one. I recently had a baby and wanted a nice stroller. Like, more-expensive-than-my-first-car stroller. Of course, being the cheap fuck that I am, I didn't want to splurge $800 for a stroller. I'm an idiot, but I'm not crazy.
So I waited until the stroller was on sale in the US. Then I ordered it off a big box store based in New York and paid with Paypal , with the intention of asking for a return and sending a promotional envelope instead of the actual stroller if needed. When the package arrived (big ass package), I ripped off part of the carton box and took pictures of it. Then I contacted the store and told them some wheels were missing, part of the seat was damaged, and I was not a happy customer. The agents I spoke to were all brain dead and all asked me to return the stroller at my own cost -- which would have been north of $200 considering the size and that it would have been an international shipment.
I then went to plan B and opened a dispute with Paypal. After a few days, Paypal told me that I really had to return the item to the store and I would receive my refund. Dammit. I was now set to go with the promotional envelope part of the plan, which I had hoped to avoid.
The thing is, the return address was the one of an office building in the middle of Manhattan, with no floor or office # indication whatsoever. That called for some improvisation. In that 50 floor building were some WeWork offices. I prepared a regular envelope with some printed sheets that I found off the internet about some quarterly profit numbers made by WeWork. I addressed that shit as requested, no floor or office # indication and went to the post office.
I filled up the paperwork with my return address and sent the whole thing as "documents." I asked for my waybill copy and went home, where I simply added "stroller" under the "documents" mention. Took a picture of it. I made sure that the weight wouldn't appear anywhere in the process.
After a week, I followed up with Paypal because, right on, the address was incomplete and the package (my envelope) couldn't be delivered and would be returned to me. I sent them their email with the incomplete return address, I sent them my waybill copy, the original box pictures, made a fuss on how I had to pay $200 to send the shit back, and how the whole thing was crapping out because of their mistake. Oh yeah, I actually only paid $20 but it's easy to photoshop a 0 on a receipt, right? Paypal told me they would refund me after their "back office assessment employees" would confirm everything was ok.
I received my refund three days later.
Thought this was over? Nah... I pushed a little further because why not, and after sending them my fake receipt for the shipping cost, I also received a refund for the $200 shipping fees. Ended up making money.
In the end, the FTID method is stupid and no one should use it. However, you can always try yourself sending promotional material instead of returning the actual package and hope that the warehouse workers throw it out (in which case the burden is on them and you will most likely receive a refund). Worst case scenario, they'll notice and tell you to return the actual item.
But the true lesson here is that whatever your initial plan is, you have to be ready to adapt to the circumstances and seize the opportunities. There is no hard rule in SE. It's all contextual. Have a plan A, B, C. Have stories and excuses to tell in case something goes wrong. Be bold but don't be dumb. Be assertive but don't be a dick to the people you talk to. Use common sense.
RE: Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID - SuperHans - 03-09-2021
Interesting post, thanks!
Did you only do one sealed box method?
RE: Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID - futterbuckz - 03-09-2021
I did several, this one is just my latest. As long as you're organized and use your head (meaning: don't hit the same vendor ten times in a month) it's a foolproof method. Next attempt will be for an iMac. Planning on replacing the iMac in the box with a broken one bought off Craigslist so the weight registers correctly. iMacs come in a big white box sealed with vinyl tape. I plan on either ungluing the entire seal tape and regluing it later, or replacing the seal altogether with the correct tape (the pull tab might be an issue).
RE: Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID - mothered - 03-09-2021
Quote:In the end, the FTID method is stupid and no one should use it.This ^
Enough said.
RE: Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID - T7k8lEEA88 - 03-10-2021
Why are you lying about paypal giving you 200 usd for shipping ? As far as i know they only pay out maximum of 30 dollars. Please clarify
RE: Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID - futterbuckz - 03-11-2021
That's 200 CAD and it's apparently assessed case by case. It is possible that Paypal paid their maximum and had the vendor cover the balance, but in the end that is what I got.
RE: Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID - juicevert - 06-14-2021
I have ordered a stroller from an online store and when it came, it was damaged, but thanks God they have replaced everything at their own cost. I have read a blog about strollers for newborns, and it took me a while to decide where to order it from. I'm not sure why would you ask for a refund when everything is fine but I guess that some people just cannot live fairly. And this upsets me a lot, I feel sad for businesses that are trying to meet customers' expectations and literally do everything for that!
RE: Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID - mothered - 06-14-2021
(06-14-2021, 11:05 AM)juicevert Wrote: I feel sad for businesses that are trying to meet customers' expectations and literally do everything for that!And then there are those who mark up their prices to the point of ripping off Innocent consumers.
Social engineering such entities Is justified.
RE: Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID - futterbuckz - 06-14-2021
(06-14-2021, 11:05 AM)juicevert Wrote: I have ordered a stroller from an online store and when it came, it was damaged, but thanks God they have replaced everything at their own cost. I have read a blog about strollers for newborns, and it took me a while to decide where to order it from. I'm not sure why would you ask for a refund when everything is fine but I guess that some people just cannot live fairly. And this upsets me a lot, I feel sad for businesses that are trying to meet customers' expectations and literally do everything for that!
Why the hell would you go on a social engineering forum in the first place if that is what you think? I get where you're coming from and I certainly respect it, but getting shit for free is the whole point around here... Besides, the stroller manufacturer had nothing to do with it as the refund was processed by a big box store. One rule all self-respecting social engineers follow is to never hit small companies. Seems like a wasted opportunity for you to keep quiet.
RE: Refund report: Amazon, Paypal and the so-called FTID - mothered - 06-15-2021
(06-14-2021, 11:34 PM)futterbuckz Wrote: One rule all self-respecting social engineers follow is to never hit small companies.^ This.
And never target anyone on a personal level.